A couple of weeks ago, when I published a post featuring a few beer-related ramblings and irks, a fellow beer blogger commented that one of the things that bothers him is the lack of honest reviews on blogs when it comes to bad beer. It was something he covered in greater depth on his blog, Beginner Brewer, late last year, posting “If you follow an “Everybody get’s a prize” philosophy, if you refuse to post bad reviews, if you don’t educate yourselves in what an off-flavor is and tastes like, well, you’re doing a tremendous disservice to the craft beer movement in this country.”
It’s something that I have been mulling over for well over a year. Until now I have employed the old “if you haven’t got anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all” approach, but is this the right way to go about things?
On the one hand, calling people out in public for a sub-par product is not the nicest thing to do – this topic was discussed over here – but then again, if you’re putting a sub-par product on a shelf and expecting Joe Public to pay an often over-par price for it, then isn’t anyone that buys it perfectly entitled to warn others not to waste their money? For me, it’s a battle of being kind to brewers – many of whom I know personally – and being kind to readers, saving them the cash that I might have wasted.
I will never say good things about bad beer, but is it time to say honest things about bad beer? Would you want to read constructive, but truthful reviews of beer that was sour or chlorophenolic or that gushed out of the bottle, bringing floaty bits of yeast and muddled aromas of cider and band aids with it? Do you want to know which beers to avoid? Or would you rather save brewers’ feelings and find out for yourself which beers are likely to end up down your sink? I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, especially if you’re a commercial brewer.
Great to know that this is a question being tackled everywhere. I’ve wondered often too. When I post and the beer isn’t good (by brewing standards) I take a personal approach like “I wouldn’t order this beer again but…” or “Not my favourite lager to date…”
It can be harsh esp because social media is such a force. However, I would rather be told about it. It’s similar to buying off beer at a liquor store or being served off beer in a restaurant. Craft is often expensive (given the economy bla bla) so I think a little quality control wouldn’t be a bad thing… from knowledgable sources of course, not Joe Public who went on a craft binge this one time and then appointed himself as craft king 😉
It is a tough one isn’t it. I don’t want to do any harm to a brewery, but then they might be doing harm to our industry…
Thanks for distracting me on a Monday morning
I think you (as Lucy Corne) could do a lot of damage to a brewery by writing about infected beers you have had … but then perhaps that’s what they deserve. Maybe its better to adopt a “three strikes and then you out rule” where if you have infected beers from the same brewery three times only then do you write about it. (to be honest if I have one bad experience I won’t go back).
I also think we should start being frank about fair pricing of beer… I paid R49 for a pint at of a very good (but not mind blowing) English Pale Ale at a burger joint in Kalk Bay on Friday night (if you know Kalk Bay you will know the place). That price was totally out of kilter with the price of the food (which was very reasonable). I am willing to pay a premium for craft, but that’s a bit crazy.
Thanks Jonathan. I like the three strikes idea…though as you say, I’m unlikely to pay for the same beer three times if it was undrinkable the first (and second!).
Post on beer prices coming at you soon!
I agree there should be more noise about breweries who consistently put out bad beers or even good beers inconsistently (because consistency is important if you’re in a business like brewing). I, however, don’t post bad reviews for a couple of reasons. A) there are too many beers out there and I don’t find the time to even review all the good beers I drink, let alone adding the bad ones. B) I know it’s not ok to put infected beer out there, but I’d rather take it up with the brewer in private. C) I don’t want to give bad beer publicity. D) Beers that I don’t like are liked by many other people. So chances are, if you don’t see a beer reviewed by me either a) I haven’t had a chance to try it or b) didn’t like it personally. You are free to ask and I will tell you .
Thanks for opening this debate. I’ll be interested to see what the majority thinks and look forward to the postings from the Bad Beer Blog 🙂
Your first reason rings very true for me. The thing is, I am very selective of which beers I buy as I don’t want to risk tipping my R30 on the garden!! So I tend to buy beers that I’m fairly sure are going to be good… I do get sent beers, but it seems a shitty move to get free beer and then slate it. In these instances, I take it up with the brewer directly. Maybe they should have the chance to rectify and if the beer is still kak, then call them out? Or maybe that’s an equally shitty move…
This in my view has to be done! It will be a marker of the craft beer market starting to mature.
Please do it! It can only help to give a better profile to craft beer in general. If the craft brewer can’t take it… then they should not be in the business of offering a quality product for a premium price.
Thanks Ryan. Maybe it’s time to take off the kid gloves…
I am not a blogger, but a “rater”. I am happy to score a beer low if the beer is bad. I paid for a beer, which means that that brewery is wasting my money.
I have tasted and rated 420 South African beers to date and (unfortunately) too many of the reviews end with “undrinkable” or “avoid at all costs”.
I (usually) notify the brewery of the fault(s), but I feel it is critical that the public, especially the new beer drinkers understand what beer should taste like, and to maybe avoid a brewery for a few months while they sort out their cleaning problems (or close down).
However, very few to no brewers seem to read online reviews. Do they not know, or do they not care? Will some brewers take the comments as an attack on their person? I think some of them do.
Where do you rate Jaco – RateBeer?
I fear there’s a lot of not knowing and not caring. I’m not sure which is worse.
Was happy to see you rated my beer 16/20 Jaco. Means a lot coming from someone with your expertise and experience.
Hi Atron, I would love to see your reviews… where can I follow you?
Ryan, I’m having a spam issue on the blog that isn’t letting people reply to comments. Jaco sent his RateBeer details: Username: AtronSeige. Profile: http://www.ratebeer.com/user/190730/. Some interesting reading there!
My humble opinion – tell it like it is.
Too many times I have wasted good money on bad beer. Even notifying the brewer has not helped. Nothing changes and the brewers seem to have no interest in fixing their problem. I have spent time educating serving staff on these obvious flaws – yet when I revisit said establishments – they are more than willing to sell me the same infected beer. I cannot believe that these establishments have no idea about the obvious signs of infected beer.
I think that if you have been fair and spoken to the brewer, and nothing has changed – name and shame.
We as brewers have a responsibility to the paying public. That is to brew good quality beer. The public are parting with their hard earned cash – we cannot then still kick them in the face with sub quality beer. This is especially true with the economic environment that we find ourselves in.
I think that the name and shame should also extend to those establishments that proclaim themselves to be craftbeer “specialists”. If they are willing to purvey the crap that is infected and not do anything about it – then they should take their lumps too.
Rant over.
Cheers
Craig
Your rants are always welcome Craig 🙂
I think you have to be honest in your review, but perhaps show brewers some mercy by giving them the feedback before making it public. It might be that you tasted a bad batch and that the beer is usually good. That way the brewery would have the opportunity to respond by perhaps recalling that particular batch without having its reputation ruined. If however the brewery is indignant to the fact that their beer is full of off flavours then I think you have a responsibility to warn the public and to educate everyone as to what might be causing the off flavour(s) you tasted and how ‘serious’ it is.
Absolutely Susan – contacting the brewers first is definitely the way to go, I think. Thanks for commenting – great to get input from some of the craft breweries out there!
There are many factors involved to give an accurate finding. Many times you hear a product is great direct from the source and sometimes in bottle not so much. Yes the brewer can do a little QC before delivery but also smaller brewers will suffer the most on recalling or dumping batches if not up to par but that brings in the factor of make one beer perfect rather then a range of 10 sub par products. Having said that once it leaves the brewery till you get it in your hands is another story. Was the transportation cooled and did the shop store it correctly or was it left in the sun as there was no space (Yes i have heard this before) influx of temperature and storage protocol can’t always be checked by the brewer. so if the beer is bad at your bottle store or restaurant was it the brewers fault?
Of course vendors have some accountability, but a good beer doesn’t become “infected” from being left out of the fridge. That problem happened in the brewery. Sure it might take longer to manifest if a brew is kept cold but acetic/butyric/chlorophenolic et al flavours are the fault of the brewer every time.
Hi Lucy
As a home brewer stepping into commercial brewing soon I would definitely want the opinion about my beers.
its the only way to grow and make the best bear that I can and constantly do so.
I do however feel that with social media it might get out of hand a bit and what might be good for you, me and the beer snobs might not be good for someone else and visa versa. peoples taste differ and I think social media might not be the best way to tell a brewer that his beer is not liked etc. for off flavours and infections now that is a whole different story so if the 5 second rule counts for the brewer then I say hell yeah give him a 5 second review.
but if the beer is good give that man a bells:)
A score sheet out of 5 I think is all you need and people will make up their own mind whether to try it or not
Totally agree – what I like and what you like might not be the same, but off is off. And that’s just not on!! 😉
As a punter and craft beer fan, I would most certainly value your input on the bad stuff. The thing is, it CAN be a batch that is off, or indeed the way it is kept (one of my local craft beer haunts is a good example – more than once have I had some very sour beer come out of their taps)… can’t it? Not sure if have helped the argument but DO know that I do note your ratings and act accordingly… I would say that if a beer is consistently not quite right over time then yes, that should be communicated to us, please…
Thanks Giles – great to know someone is reading the reviews!! You’re right, it certainly can just be one batch. From the other comments it seems the best course of action is to contact the brewer, get a replacement and if it’s the same, contact again then post away…
I have gotten to a point that I don’t buy bottled beer from brand new local breweries or breweries I have had bad beers from before, there are unfortunately only a handful of breweries who produce consistent quality bottled beers. I found myself in this exact predicament yesterday afternoon when visiting Dropkick Murphy’s, who recently opened up in Cape Town. I went there because I knew they have some beers from Durban and Joburg, that I might not have tried before. So when faced with buying a bottled beer for R49 from a local brewery I have never tried before, or trying a new local brew on tap, I went for the tap option. Much easier asking for a small taster of the beer on tap, and easy enough to send back a small pint if not satisfied.
I’m exactly the same and isn’t that sad? I’m sure there’s some awesome start-up breweries in SA whose beer I haven’t tasted because I’m unwilling to part with my cash and risk it, though in truth, we should buy, try and it it’s crap, contact the brewer and ask for a replacement. Of course if the replacement is the same, then what next?
That said, I bought a beer today from a newish brewery whose beers I haven’t tasted before (St Francis). Watch this space…
I have contacted brewers about bad beer on a few occasions and most of the time my emails are ignored. I was once chatting with a brewer and told him that I bought a bottle of one of his limited edition brews and it gushed everywhere. His response? “Oh, sorry.” (And I think you would be surprised to learn who that was).
In my experience, brewers don’t seem to care. It’s sad, but a lot of them think their beer can never be bad either.
I think we have no choice but to name and shame. If we don’t get at least a reasonable response, then screw them, I don’t want other people to waste their time and money.
As a side note, I have had repeated offences from a particular establishment that I feel needs to be mentioned. The Griffin in JHB has served me off beer on many occasions and all I’m told it “that’s how it is supposed to taste”. Explaining that I’m a brewer and that a lager shouldn’t reek of rotten eggs doesn’t seem to be good enough for them. I’ve simply refused to go there at any cost.
Thanks Daniel. I think naming and shaming when you’ve already advised the establishment numerous times is spot on!
Everyone is free to express their opinions and complain if they have experienced poor service.
Personally I take watching beer reviews quiet seriously as I know we are trying our best to ensure a good product reaching every customer every time, reviews and feed back, even if it was not what we would want to hear, would be very helpful in helping us pick up issues that we have missed or areas where we can tighten our production.
I do keep and eye on review sites, but I would also like face to face feed back from the people I consider well versed on the topic and definitely those who I consider to be friends in the industry, if they picked up a problem. If I read about it for the first time on a well read blog I do think I would take it rather personally.
We all have loads to learn from each other, from beer drinkers too, and we should be changing and growing as we go along, constantly improving the standard of local beer. No-one has nothing left to learn! The problem arises when brewers feel that they have nothing to learn and are not willing to take advice. Is it okay then to publicly ‘tell them how it is’? I suppose in the end it’s up to the person writing the blog to decide. Good Luck in making that call!
I agree Wendy that a brewer finding out from a blog post, particularly if written by someone they know, would be a crappy move. Will take note of that!
After reading some of these comments I want to change my three strikes to two, at most. I am also reminded why I so seldom risk spending cash on craft beer from bottle stores.
The cold chain is important, but it impacts on beer only in certain ways. Only the brewer can be blamed for something like chlorophenolic off flavours. I also can’t think how the beer is handled post bottling can cause gushing. Light struck beer is something else, but that only seldom seems to be a problem.
Two strikes it is! 😉
I agree that they deserve at least a second chance. I’ve had a gushing Zeitgeist from Brewdog (it should be noted, Norman Goodfellows were great and replaced it without questions). I’ve never had another off beer from Brewdog (and I drink a LOT of Brewdog) and they have an excellent reputation. Even the best brewers can get a gushing beer creep through once in a while
Very true.
And you clearly have too much beer money if you drink that much BrewDog. Can I have some money please?
All gone on Brewdog I’m afraid…
I agree that bad beers and establishments should be called out. I’ve often experienced the same “Oh sorry” response as Daniel has and frankly, that’s not good enough.
With that being said, I also agree that posting negative reviews on social media can get out hand, being total overkill, even if that wasn’t the intention of the reviewer.
I think reviews should be honest but fair and constructive. Also, a qualified opinion should carry more weight than that of a drive by night craft “expert”. So I’m going to suggest the following. A programme be set up whereby as many local beers as possible go through reviews by a team of both BJCP qualified judges and experienced consumers, who give honest and constructive reviews on the beers. Any brewery participating can pay a token fee to display the review process logo (which can pay for it to run) but more importantly, it shows that the said brewery is committed to getting feedback and improving it’s products.
Does this sound completely whack or are we onto something?
I like it – like a quality seal sort of thing? Maybe this is the sort of thing that CBSA should be spearheading. Quality control is a big issue and a potential industry killer… Let’s discuss this further…
Somehow I missed the notification for this; sorry it’s 2 weeks later.
Practically, how could we get something like this implemented? I’m not familiar enough with CBSA and how they operate
To be fair, they don’t really operate at all at the moment but maybe we could help change that!! Will try and start putting something together after Clarens…
Hi IPA Queen,
Personally I would that you rather tell me my beer is sub standard (especially as I am brewing in isolation due to my location) than let me carry on, ignorant to the fact that there is something amiss. The goal is to brew great beers, so need feedback to improve.
Started getting that rejected feeling (remember I am male) that despite going to great cost to send new beers down south no “official” sanction or rejection is forthcoming.
I promise I raved about the IPA on Twitter!! And remember that one hop-hunter declared “I would drink the shit out of that”…
To recompense, here’s a little stroking for your male ego, if you haven’t seen it already:
http://www.ball-sup.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/beer-hunting-south-africa.html
“My favourite South African beer. Anvil Ale, IPA
Best range – Anvil Ale, Dullstroom. All Winners.” 😀
Thanks for that.. did not know about it.
@Daniel Good move on voting with your wallet re The Griffin – this to me is the only way to do it, it may take time for establishments / brewers to notice it, maybe it will be to their own detriment by the time they do realise it, but the industry as a whole should not suffer because of it.
Calling it out on social media that you have, in-fact, voted with your wallet, will allow immediate remedial action to be taken – those that take remedial action immediately will likely get a second chance, those that dont – will get to where they’re headed a lot quicker.
So Lucy has already quoted my opinion about reviews (thanks for that, btw!), but here’s another look at what I’m worried about: As a craft brewer , I actually welcome bad reviews (even if its of my own beer) for one simple reason: it improves the industry by helping educate consumers about beer quality.
Many readers of beer blogs are stalwart craft beer fanatics, so this may not be true for them, but imagine this scenario: You’re new to craft beer and have just started waking up to this whole “craft thing.” You’ve had a few amazing beers, so you’re kinda hooked, but certainly not committed. Also: you’ve had a few down-the-drainers, which haven’t helped. It’s pretty cool how much choice in beer there is nowadays at your local liquor store and restaurant (but the price–ouch!). How to choose? You buy a couple of craft beers and try them. Some are down right nasty, but the restaurant tells you “that’s how craft beer is supposed to taste” (see above comment). You email the brewer. No response (see above comment). You look for reviews on that off beer to see if it’s just you (remember, you’re no expert): also nothing.
Mmm. That gives you pause. If craft beer is supposed to taste crap, then maybe it’s not for you. At least you know what you’re getting when you buy that crate of (insert macrobrewer beer name here) at half the price. Also: what’s with everyone (including the brewer) not wanting to talk about (potentially) bad beer? Do THEY even know what’s going on? Maybe craft beer is just another fad, another get-the-money-and-run fashion statement?
As a brewer, it’s this train of thought that scares me silly. I’m not competing with other craft brewers or the big guns, like SABMiller. I’m really competing with bad beer, because that will chase potential (fledgling) customers away from the category as a whole. And then we’re all kinda screwed. Honest reviews about bad beer will help (at least in part) prevent that. I hope.
Thoughts?
Superbly put. Have you ever considered writing a beer blog? 😉
I’ve always said that the biggest threat to our little industry is bad beer and the excuses that often come with it. I suppose it’s time to put my money where my mouth is, as they say.
If more users know about and use Untappd, Ratebeer, etc, the more information they will have at their fingertips. I think I have rated about 50 to 60 % of the South African beers at the moment and all the ratings are on RateBeer. I try to add ratings on a daily basis, but it is an expensive hobby. I also re-evaluate beers if the brewer responds to my email about the problem and provides me with “fixed” beers. I also prefer to rate beers at home, as a fresh beer on tap (bar/brewery/festival) is great, but the bottling shows that the brewer has mastered all levels.
Great topic! I usually give beers two rounds (when in doubt anyway) before reviewing and generally the “bad beers” don’t make it to my blog. They do make it to untappd though. That’s essentially my way of letting the brewer know. I’ve had plenty of responses from the breweries that way.
Can brewers/drinkers who are not signed up to Untappd see the ratings/reviews? I don’t use it so have no idea how it works!!
It seems you have to be a member to get info. Brewers can “claim” their brewery and get statistics on their beers, but I have no idea how this works.
Thanks Jaco – I couldn’t find a way to see anyone’s reviews. Thought it was just me being technologically challenged!!
The app is free (website or on device). It allows you to:
Find beer & see ratings
Rate the beer (score from 0 to 5 on a slider) and write a few words on the beer. Note that the written part is very limited, which is a drawback in my opinion.
You can also add a photo of the beer while you are rating it.
During all of this you get badges. Internet points are important! 😀
Ratebeer ratings are available on their app / website for everyone. I often use it as a resource to gauge my own rating skills by tasting a beer and guessing what the Ratebeer score would be and comparing with the actual score. I must admit that I do rely on Jaco’s (Atron Seige) reviews for local beers, as he’s rated so many of them and he gives great detail (Thanks btw!).
For the record, I do not recommend Beer Advocate, Ratebeer is a much better resource in my opinion.
Untappd is less about ratings and more of a beer log and social beer app for me, but I still highly recommend it.
I also agree with Ori’s idea for an external reviewing board. If anything it is probably overdue. It’s just a question of having people who are genuinely passionate and knowledgeable, not just those who think they are…
It’s a tough job, but someone has to do it! ^_^
For those of you listening to BeerSmith podcast listen to podcast 120 with Marry Pellettieri about quality management for beer brewing especially for small breweries.
she talks about dumping bad beer and quality and consistency
Hope some guys listen to this
Thanks Phillip, I love those podcasts, I will look for that one.
I think a 2 strikes tactic is a great idea. But the brewer/brewery needs to know about both strikes. This industry is growing slowly, mainly as a result of bad beers on the markets. People (including me) are scared to try new stuff “just in case”, which does nothing for new and upcoming breweries, struggling to get their names out there. I think said brewery needs to be given an opportunity to fix things before they are hit on social media. After their two strikes, the brewery should be given the option to send through a few bottles of a batch they feel is clean (at the brewers cost of course- it is their name on the line), to a BJCP panel to do a thorough check (including the “warm cupboard” test). If it fails that, the brewer could be given the option of a consultation by a qualified food/beverage quality specialist to inspect transfer pipes, fermenters, and the general brewing process (also at the brewers cost). Of course, the brewer may not want any of this interference and cost, and will therefore be named and shamed, unfortunately. I reckon, after strike 2, the brewery should get a black mark (anonymous), and after 3 random checks on their beers at different locations and times, the black mark could be removed should the beer be okay). Sometimes a bad beer may be as a result of a single bad batch, where every other batch before and after this one is good, but that still doesn’t rule out an issue in the brewery. Of course, this is a lot of admin, and it brings up the point of who would do this. We have brilliant beer judges in this country, none of which want breweries producing bad beer, let’s use them! I know a number of qualified judges that would review a beer (good and bad) for free. I think brewers need to get off their pedestals, and start getting their beer reviewed by as many people as possible. Not everyone is going to like a particular brewers beer (too sweet, too malty, too bitter etc), that is cool, that’s totally acceptable, no brewer should take that too much to heart (within reason though- a syrupy marmite beer may not be ideal), but no one should be subjected to off beer.
I think if brewers were more scared about being called out for bad beer, they may take more care in their product, I’m not sure.
Aah, look at that, a comment longer than your blog post, what a surprise 😛
I think you you got it righ to the point and also agree with thAt . And brewers should taste their own beer even more and more before even selling it and even when delivering crak open a beer and taste it with the owner to make sure its ok to sell
Here is the catch: The beer that you buy at the bottle store goes through the normal chains and you get a bottle of Elastoplast and baby vomit. You inform the brewer and they send you a fresh, overnight shipped, kept cool version that tastes awesome. Happy days, until you buy the next bottle from the shelf and start the process again. I only believe that a brewer has become better if ( a few months later) I can safely buy a bottle of their beer without worrying what off-flavour training I will be receiving.
But I bet you’ve encountered brewers whose beers aren’t even good straight from the source, Jaco. They will be the priority!!
Oh, one more thing 🙂 I went to Apiwes sensory analysis course. It was a great way of learning how to pick out and identify off flavours/aromas. On our leg of the course, there were only two commercial brewers who attended (myself and Doctrine), I don’t know about the other legs though. That sort of training should be high on brewery’s lists of things to do, whether you are the owner, brewer, assistant, etc. That is an investment in the brewery in my view. Beer needs to be evaluated before it leaves the premises, and constantly monitored throughout its aging process, by someone who knows what they are doing.
The amount of interest this blog has attracted has disturbed me. I am convinced that the cause of bad beer, in the vast majority of cases, comes down to poor sanitation at bottling. I think Lucy showed in her experiment with Doctrine beer that the problem is not bottle conditioning(..hey that was the conclusions wasn’t it? 🙂 .
I can imgaine a small brewery that is trying to push out as many batches a week as possible can fall into the trap of rushing and not cleaning pumps and pipes adequately … I am not saying that’s acceptable, but I can see it happening.
On reflection, I don’t understand how a brewery allows a bad batch to go out. Do they ship without testing?
One threat to the craft beer industry is itself, in a way. New brewers need to learn, and homebrewers are not professional brewers. The only way for anyone to improve is to get up after falling, but the key point is to realize that you have fallen. Brewers need to know that they have fallen, and chances are they’ll get right back up.
But that’s the overview. Putting this into action is tricky. Much like helping an employee who is struggling. Do you tell them they’re doing something wrong, or let them keep doing what they’re doing? Well, you tell them, but it a constructive manner.
Addressing a product is similar. A helpful tip is to keep the focus on your experience: “This beer is bad” is not a good starting point. “I get a bit of butter on the nose” is better and highlights an aspect of the beer, not the beer as a whole. It also helps to pinpoint what went wrong. It also helps to describe the flavor, aroma, feel, etc rather than the cause, even if you know it. This limits arrogance and the “you did it wrong” accusations.
And by all means, send the review to the brewery before launching it on social media. A review on BeerAdvocate (I have 3,000+ reviews on there), for example, is fine…posting it on that site’s forum is different–it’s advertising in a way. Let the brewery know that you plan to publish a review–give them a chance to respond. If they don’t, or don’t care, then go for it.
Thanks Jason – this seems like the route most people would take/suggest.
A problem that I have run into is that you give a detailed review to the brewer (same as what you do for BJCP) and you get responses in the line of “I am a pro brewer! You know nothing about brewing!” I usually try to give constructive feedback, for instance “buttery might be from fermentation issues (see diacetyl rest) or an infection (see pediococcus)”, but even this is sometimes ridiculed.
Currently I do the rating in Ratebeer and send the same review to the brewer, with a few notes on what I think might be the problem. If I get no response, or a cocky answer, I just leave it.
This issue is a big dilemma for me too. The personal dimension is always problematic – someone you like gives you a beer and you almost splutter when you’re drinking it. So, 1) (how) do you tell the brewer, and 2) (how) do you splash it around in the media? Negotiating this problem is something each person who sees themself as some kind of commentator should consistently address, and in their own way. But there’s something beyond this dimension, and this is where most of the real complications arise. I hate to attach the word “industry” to craft, but let me do that now — there’s an entire industry at stake; an industry I’ve decided to align myself with, for better or worse. Allowing newer craft beerlings to be “at the mercy” of badly-made beer shouldn’t be an option, and neither should damaging the entire craft brewing community with trumpeting failures rather than successes. In short, it’s tricky. A two (or three) strikes policy sounds reasonable, and again I believe that one should create one’s own way, AND STICK TO IT. Jaco’s way, for instance, isn’t my way, but I understand, trust and respect it. I’ve also begun to realise that by presuming to be a beer commentator, one must literally be at the front — right there where the lousy beers are. If you take it upon yourself to point out bad brewing, you also should take on the responsibility to keep on tasting after the two or three strikes have been awarded, just in case they mend their ways, and say so when this happens, even at one’s own peril. There’s a certain brewery in Stellenbosch that makes a fair case in point. I have had their beers on far too many occasions. Once or twice I have really enjoyed them, but overwhelmingly frequently I’ve had trouble swallowing them down. This has no bearing on whether they’d adhered to style guidelines, or whether their beers have displayed “off flavours” or not. (Some wonky beers or beers with off flavours are actually quite good on occasion, though this is the exception rather than the rule.) I have begun to publicly mention their name by now (though I won’t do so here), and in a negative light, simply because they have been consistently inconsistent, and with their lows far outnumbering (and, I dare say, outclassing) their highs. Then there’s another quite respected brewery, also not to be named. They do a lot of things, and many of them very well. But their very well-regarded flagship brew has been in steady decline, even though it’s still drinkable. When do I start mentioning this?
Personally I lean towards thinking that craft beer should be drunk where it’s brewed. It’s a beverage, for Pete’s sake, not something to be ticked off a list. Many of the problems one encounters would be softened if this is one’s outlook, and there’d be far fewer beers with the life filtered and pasteurised out of them. But this is my own beef and maybe beside the main point here.
At present I concentrate on what amazes me or makes me happy. I’ll never praise any beer I think is average or substandard, or any brewer whose efforts I deem inferior. But the gloves are finally coming off. Maybe it’s time, I don’t know — but only if I can do so responsibly, open-mindedly, and with the integrity it requires.
As with my reply on the previous blog, we (Notties Brewery) attempt to keep our level of quality as high as humanly possible, and if someone has an issue and calls me or sends me a mail, I always respond immediately, try to find the issue from our side (or the outlet), and replace the beer with interest free of charge and as soon as we can get it to them.
I consider it constructive in that we can tighten certain areas, and I know as a craft beer drinker what it’s like to pay premium prices for poor product.
That said, the social media ‘name and shame’ policy I do find quite harmful to the brand as it makes the brewery in question look completely incapable.
But if certain other breweries are not responding or being cagey, it makes this quite a hot debate.
I would also like to see the shops that go the extra mile with cold storage get supported . Theres a couple of that
really dont take 30-50% markup and store it the correct way … is there a way that we can praise them ? maybe that sorts out a lot of bad beer and really minimize the chain of possibilities.
Maybe a seal of approval for certain outlets? “Approved by _____ [insert name of organisation here – SPGB (society for the protection of good beer)]???
This is a very difficult area to walk. On my last visit to Cape Town I ordered a Beer from one of my favourite breweries at a pub and it was sour. I mentioned to the pub owner and the next day he had fresh beer and all was fine. This happened to me more than once not only in Cape Town. The larger breweries that filter and pasteurized perhaps can be judged. Handcrafted Beers are too special to attack, the character of Handcrafted Beer changes to quickly under different conditions. Infected beer on the other hand has no place in the market and should be reported to the brewer. If the brewery do not fix it, the free market will sort them out. There are too many players in the market already that bad mouth others, and my opinion is that we do not need social media to get at other people and their products or branding. (We have first hand experience in this). It can cause big legal problems. Let the beer drinker rule the market.
To Name and Shame brewers if you tested the beer in a laboratory plus a panel of tasters might be an idea, but the beer drinker remains king and he/she will determine the future of the brewery. To put a seal of approval from some authority on the beer is window dressing. I know of beers with several awards and they are undrinkable by me, but 40mil people like it. Just to Name and Shame people because it is not your style of beer, or beer was transported, stored and served incorrectly, or outlet beer lines were not maintained properly might have legal complications for the social media instigator and can face court action.
As I brewery owner I appreciate all feedback on our customer care email address, and we act on that immediately. There is no other way to know if we are doing well other than our clients telling us when we make a cock-up. The only ever suggestion that there was a problem with our beer came in his email dated 5 July 2014 from Jaco Hamilton-Attwell (Atron Seige). We investigated the batch, discovered the problem, fixed it and gave him feedback.
One thing I stand for is #craftbeerpricesmustfall There is no beer in this market that is worth more than R30/500ml Draught, even if I drink it in a Santon Restaurant.
Hi Roeks
Thanks for commenting. I don’t think people are talking about naming and shaming beers that they don’t like, rather beers that are faulty. I agree with the majority of people here – that the first port of call is to contact the brewer, but if the beer is bad time and time again, then surely consumers deserve to know? As you say, craft beer is becoming expensive and many people do not have the time/the inclination/the confidence to contact the brewer and request a replacement. They will of course not buy that beer again and in the long term, that brewery will suffer, but in the short (and long) term, it damages the whole industry.
Sorry for the late reply but only seen this now as it was shared on FB but its a point I feel is very important.
Its a difficult one, as a brewer, I would of course like to know when one of my beers is being called a “bad beer”. If it is bad I will gladly sort it out as quickly as I can, no questions asked. Its a business and most of us brewers are trying to make livings out of it, not just making homebrews and back to the office to earn a salary the next day. So of course we don’t want the public to stop buying our beers. There is no way that the industry is a “fad”. The Belgians have been drinking hundreds of different beer styles for centuries, now that the rest of the world have found out… they want some too. Why should wine have 16000 varieties on offer in SA when all a beer lover could get was a handful of mostly 1 sort, larger…
The problem is being “craft” and brewing in small batches (I’m comparing to the likes of Green King, Fullers etc who brew millions of litres) we are able to push the boundaries and do. After all if we had wanted to compete with SAB at a game they quite frankly do very well, we would spend in excess of R100m and set up a brewery to make more larger and give the beers a cool or German name.
So I have 2 points 1) variety and choice. That doesn’t condone bad quality. It does however mean there will be beers some people enjoy and there will be beers some people don’t. The problem with this, and this is going to upset some people, is that the SA market is fledgling. It will take time for palates to change and even though some think they are very experienced because they have had a lot of homebrews that they have made for a couple of years that doesn’t make them expert. I do however think its a good thing that they should keep doing.
Recent feed back from a beer competition judge said “beer misses the mark stylistically on flavour” because it had no citrus flavour. When the BJCP guideline suggests, “citrus, floral, pine, resinous, spicy, tropical fruit flavour, stone fruit, berry, melon, etc”. Now I know the BJCP is only a guide and they say that in very clear points over more than one page, but???
The very same beer, from the very same batch, was sampled by an extremely experienced SAB employee, said it was probably one of his favourites and he could easily drink many more of them.
One of my other beers is 77 IBU’s and why shouldn’t it be? Some people like a hot Piri Piri and some don’t! We want customers who are looking for good full flavoured beer (obviously bitter/spicy isn’t the only flavour but this isn’t our only beer) to know and appreciate that when they buy one of our beers they know what to expect. One reviewer said the beer was very bitter and gave it 1 out of 5, I have no problem with that but 2 of my customers buy the same beer directly from the brewery by the case load, and only that one! They both have very British accents, and have probably had a bitter or two before 🙂
My other point is how the beer is handled by the customer. I’m not talking about leaving the beers out in the car all afternoon on a hot summers day while you are out shopping. That would be silly, someone might steal the beer for their own refreshment! But small things like accepting that you are not getting the best out of a bottle conditioned beer if you drink it from the bottle. With each mouthful you are getting more and more washed up sediment. Or like a good friend of mine did, don’t take your beer to the park in a cooler bag with the beer upside down then open it and ask why there is sediment in the glass that they did bring!
I completely understand that we don’t want bad beer to bring bad reputation to our new and flourishing industry but please people, speak to the brewery first, make sure its not just style that you dislike because your second beer should taste exactly the same if it is. If the beer is off the brewer will want to fix that. If its style/recipe the brewery will need to consider if their market segmentation is what they are after, some flavours don’t necessarily mean the brewery has bad hygiene practice. Remember the pen (or keyboard) is mightier than the sword.
Phew. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
Craig
Hi all if I can add my comments. There are no qualified Brewers in SA. To call yourself a brewer you will need a minimum of 10000 hours experience. A few pages of Google and a couple of home brews in a man cave does not make you a brewer overnight. Secondly, there are certain companies that have taken generations to refine their turnkey brewery equipment. Your friend of a friend who qualified as an engineer from Bloem uni cannot Frankenstein you a brewery together boiling with a gas flame etc. So basically buy decent equipment from the experts and get the correct training from master Brewers or people that have proven track records.
Thanks Jonathan. I would correct you on one point though, that there are no qualified brewers in SA. SAB brewers aside, there are four that I can think of who have the IBD diploma and one in particular (Wolfgang Koedel) who is a qualified master brewer with more than two decades of brewing experience.
But you make some good points!
Noted, master brewer Wolfgang makes German beers really well and CBC are consistent but when was the last time he brewed 3-4 years ago he instructs his team of converted wine makers to brew and oversees them, I have noticed even there beers gone down in quality and consistency lately. Your point on SAB brewers they would look like a deer in the headlights when put into a craft setup. They know how to push buttons and work on a factory assembly line in a big team but I have yet to meet a sab brewer that commands my respect. Also sab equipment is chinese rubbish tendered out to the cheapest supplier, only God and the chinese know if it is in fact stainless steel or melted down coke cans. We need a regulating body awarding Michelin stars to Brewers who invest in decent equipment and are trained correctly. I say name and shame every brewery who chargers an arm and a leg and delivers a poor product. They are embarrassing the industry. Well done to the very few who have done it properly. There are a lot more people doing it wrong than right. Hope all South Africans get the opportunity to drink better quality craft and embrace this transition.
You are grossly mistaken if you believe all equipment in SA is cobbled together, there are many set ups that have been very professionally designed. I know of one in particular that came from a manufacturer who has been designing and installing systems all over the world for over 35 years … there are many others too. So maybe not quite an accurate statement.
Hi Craig point taken Pls explain where I can see an example of a professional installed SA system as I have travelled to almost every brewery in SA and never seen one yet. The fact that there are 4 qualified Brewers in SA and 300 breweries is also very concerning for the consumer.
This was also the case in the US when their craft beer boom took place. Don’t forget that our industry is very young – it’s like being in the US in the late 80s/early 90s. And don’t be fooled that you need a Kaspar Schulz to make good beer. Go try beers from Afro-Caribbean – all clean and consistent. There are plenty more, it’s just that that happens to be my local so I can keep an eye on consistency.
And there are more like 160 breweries in SA, just FYI. If you’ve managed to get to 300, I would like to see your list as I’m clearly missing a few!!
35 years might be a long time, but the Europeans have been installing and building machines for 500 years!!!